The build and it's story.

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default The build and it's story.

Post by Ternnel Stronghold on Tue 16 Sep - 23:29

-build-

W/Ra

strength
12+1

hammer mastery
12+1+2

template code-

OQISE5JLfFal4C14vV+0qB

template name-
1000 health warrior

Funny story, i did A TON of work on this build and trying to post it on PVX wiki too find out it was a "terrible"
build. it is an AB build that does lack a running skill. So I am going to skip the complaints and describe the build

-Description-
It works on outliving your enemy(s) and instead of a heal it uses Endure and Defy pain. It uses the fact that the hammer is easier to focus attributes in.

-Key features-
Endure and defy pain stack for over 1000 health(i have them up as much as possible)

I do at times 50-125 damage per hit with hammer with skills, and 13 armor penetration due to strength.

I use tiger stance for speed due to the fact that the negative side doesn't reduce damage , make me take more damage or limit me from using skills. I use power attack to get adrenaline along with tiger stance(both tiger stance and power attack as well as endure pain use energy).

I use staggering blow(inflicts weakness) and auspicious blow (gives you energy if target foe has weakness) for energy return.

I use antidote signet for a condition removal(important cause it is spamable and gets rid of blind a common melee counter).

Lastly i use mighty blow for extra damage.

I used a rune of sup. vigor , 2 survivor insign. , 1 or 2 rune of vitae(s) and a hammer grip of fort. to get health above 500 (i am obviously using a hammer for this build)
P.S.-

I use this build on hammer addict it proves more efficient in AB than the working "great builds" that i tried on PVX wiki. I also noticed it was more efficient in Zaishen Challenge when i put the res signet in instead of antidote signet.(and i won't criticize you if you think it is "terrible")

-please comment on build
Ternnel

Very Happy
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Game Nurse on Wed 17 Sep - 0:29

Well I do not know a thing about warrior builds or anything, but I DO know that you completely stomped me in the Battle of the es if this is that build. In fact, I think you killed me in two hits...several times!!!!

I want you on my team next time....*grin*

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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Scion on Wed 17 Sep - 0:43

Hate to break it to ya Tern, but that is a horrible build.

Just as more Energy isn't Energy management (yes, that is right, more isn't better, better use is better), more Health isn't better than healing.

The main point of a hammer is knockdown. You lack this.

Your Increase Attack Speed (AIS) skill doesn't last as long or longer than the recharge, so there will be times when you attack with a hammer at normal speed, which is terrible.

Your build does nothing other than stay alive well, and that is arguable at best. And that is only the case when you can hit someone to build Adrenaline for Defy Pain.

When Endure Pain runs out, which it will because the recharge is longer than the activation, you will lose all that Health. What if, tired of getting nowhere with you, the thing you were beating up just plain runs away? You have no way to catch them without an increase movement speed, and no way to keep them next to you if they do stand and hit you once or twice.

So now you are chasing after a guy, and whoops, your plus Health skills run out, and you lose 500 health. I know that is a rare case, but nevertheless the possibility is there.

Or heaven forbid you fight a Necro with , which should do somewhere around the order of 500 Health, if the Necro is smart. That is half your buffed lifebar. With no healing.

--

The main test for this is the Master of Damage on the Battle Isles (PvP land). Check your DPS, and how long it takes to kill him. Report that back here, and we shall discuss more.

--

I'm sure the build 'works', and by 'works' I mean causes you to not die. But the role of the Warrior isn't to stay alive longer than everyone else, especially in Alliance Battles. This is a great build for going into a dungeon or something. I'd let you lead way out in front any day of the week and twice on Sunday. But you need organized healing and support and someone else to do damage before this build becomes useful in my book.

Besides, the best way to counter damage is to not take it in the first place, not just absorb more.

How about this?

{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
Note: Lion's Comfort now gives Adrenaline and health based on Strength, no need for Tactics.

Build some adrenaline. Enraging Charge to a target, hit them. Activate Flail. Hit with Devastating Hammer, and knock them down with Weakness. Crushing Blow comes next, giving the gift of Deep Wound, covering Weakness. When they get back up, hit them with Heavy Blow, knocking them down again. Use Mokele Smash to get some adrenaline back. Use Lion's Comfort to build Adrenaline and heal.

If they are knocked down, they can't hit you. No need for 1k health.
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Ternnel Stronghold on Wed 17 Sep - 5:19

i do not own NF so some of those skills i do not have but i recently put a KD in it and it is very affective and i took adv. of the health and bumped HM to 12+1+3. so i now hit for 65-150 dmg. it is usually above 100 do to the crit chance . so i do do more dam. and my dam. per second is way higher now even when hitting slow. i would like lions comfort but like i said do not have NF. the damage on this build is nice and i do not have flail which would be nice cause of the NF problem. And as for running i can usually find ways around chasing a guy by either switching targets
or, it is ab, running back to the cap point to just cap the base i do not NEED to kill the guy. Just need to stay alive long enough to cap a base. So i will agree some things can be improved with NF but for now before i get NF this will do just fine. The build doesn't LOOK good in fact it looks bad but i have realized it plays well for some not so obvious reasons.

P.S.

yes nurse this is the build i used in battle of the sexes
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Ternnel Stronghold on Wed 17 Sep - 5:24

oh and i will do the master of damage thing soon Very Happy
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Scion on Wed 17 Sep - 15:48

Without Nightfall your skill selection will be limited, true. But that doesn't change my stance on the role of the Warrior in PvP, and the utter failure of the 'add health' skills. They should be used as an 'oh crap' button that gives you that instant final chunk of Health you need in order to finish the fight. Not as a prebuff in hopes you win before you run out.

And santaluchia you must be crazy to take a Superior Rune and the -75 Health hit. That is plain playing with fire, my friend.

For me it really come down to this: You can take two skills and set yourself up to not die (Defy and Endure), or change a little bit and set yourself up to kill (Knockdown and Deep Wound).

--

Back in my Starcraft days I would sit and turtle behind walls of cannons, slowly building my army, being safe, laughing at other players attempts to break my wall. Then I started playing better players that would bring the Zerg "Flying Crabs" and just lay waste to my pretty defenses. They would sneak in Nukes or a cloaked Carrier group, and simply smack me around.

I used to play chess, setting up this awesome perfect defense, daring my opponent to attack and sacrifice pieces.

And I used to play Guildwars with Mending cranked all the way up, just daring mobs to try and get through my awesome regen.

Those strategies are nice, but they don't work against good/better players. Offense is always better than defense. Stopping damage is always better than taking damage. Killing is better than just staying alive.

--

Don't get discouraged, though. You have no idea how much I appreciate people posting builds on the forums. There is no way to get better if you don't check yourself. Like having someone else proofread a paper you wrote or listen to a presentation before you get up in front of the General.

If you are reading this, yes you, post the build you've been using lately. If things are too hard, heroes keep dieing or henchies can't keep you alive, it might just come down to a tweak or two to your build.

I would, though, suggest reading my "Scion's Guides" on the forums. They are awesome. =)

--

All that being said: If you are having fun, don't let my bitter old man opinions disuade you from playing the way you want to play. If it works for you, and you like it, then drive on. If I tell you you're wrong, tell me you like it and I should shut my dang pie hole. This is, after all, a game.

Some just might be better than others. =)

--

Can anyone else tell I'm back in teaching mode?

--

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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Ternnel Stronghold on Wed 17 Sep - 20:10

Note: i put mighty blow back up instead of the KD i was talking about due to the fact that Mighty blow performed better in ab and in master of damage.

Ok, I did master of damage and had and average dam. per sec. of 42 and death occurred in 15 sec.(that was without heroes or/and henchmen)

to reply to the superior rune issue i did an AB didn't die once did another and died but less than most everyone else.

secondly i tested a recommended sword build and it did the same damage per second or less as the hammer build
plus the hammer build in ab could stay alive longer than the sword build in ab.

my mom(ahou) tested her sword warrior on master of dam. and she got the same results in ways of average crits and time until death.

so you said frenzy was better than tiger stance but when i tested it in my build in place of tiger stance it still did the same damage. Frenzy even though i attacked faster i had trouble keeping my energy up cause every 5 sec. I needed to use 5 energy + power attack for more adr.

to sum it up the build hits just fine in ways of dam. and it is even better with the fact that I live longer.

Very Happy
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Pampered One on Wed 17 Sep - 21:50

Once you get flail, the energy will become a non issue. It runs off 4 adrenaline and will last roughly 12-14 seconds depending on strength. Enervating charge will give you your speed rush and once you hit with a succesful hit(1 strike of adrenaline) it gives you 3 adrenaline and ends (total of 4, enough to activate flail). This way you can keep constant flail running as long as you spare 4 adrenaline every 12-14 seconds, OR pop off enervating for 1 second to get that 4 adrenaline rush. Hopefully you will have NF soon and will be able to get those skills.

I use it almost constantly in pvp settings and this enables me to keep defy pain running nonstop(9 damage reduction plus 270'ish hp) and flail running nonstop. The one drawback(there always is one) is while flail is running you move 33% slower. You can get easily outrun. A crippler in party or on your bar eliminates this downside. Also, There are skills you can try to knockdown if you so choose: None Shall Pass(10 energy eeep): Bulls Strike: Many Hammer Attacks (4 elite & 4 non elite) as well as some possibles from other secondary professions. This leaves you with 3-4 attack slots of choice and possibly one heal.


Though Scion and i agree there is room for improvement, I always lean more to the side....If it works for you and you are effective with it, use it and screw everyone else. Very Happy

Hehe that will get Scion on my case


Pampered


**EDIT** I see scion basically said what I said about screw em if you like it. I must be softening the old warrior. As an aside, he comes off harsh but his interest in helping you is always sincere and to the point. Understand that about him and you will come to love him....and if you tell him "tough titties , I like it this way" he will respect that.

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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Scion on Wed 17 Sep - 22:17

Alright, you forced me to run some tests:

14 Hammer Mastery
12 Strength
PvP Hammer
15^50 Damage Mod

Just hitting the guy I averaged around high twenties for DPS. It got down to eighteen, all the way up to thirty-four, but usually up around 25-28.

Just running Frenzy, that is no power attack or other skills, just Frenzy to up my attack speed, I got up over fifty on the highs, down to twenties on the low, but usually around mid thirties.

Which makes sense, a 33% increase in attack speed does 50% more damage.

---

And yes, Frenzy is better than Tiger Stance. How long does Tiger Stance last? Nine seconds? Ten? How long is the recharge? Twenty. That is ten seconds of you standing there attacking slowly. And if you miss, then you just wasted the stance.

Frenzy is eating up your Energy just because you can use it more often. If you use Frenzy once every twenty seconds like Tiger Stance, then you'll be using the same amount of Energy. You'll also be attacking almost the same rate of speed, too.

---

Power Attack is trouble. It does great damage but there are better places to use your precious twenty Energy points.

Power Attack doesn't build Adrenaline faster than any other attack, by the way, so please stop saying you build or gain Adrenaline with Power Attack. You gain the same amount through just hitting someone without an attack skill, and you don't lose the five Energy.

---

Now:

I ran a simple build of Mighty Blow, Devastating Hammer, Fierce Blow, Wild Blow, Frenzy.

The chain does +34 damage, weakness and knockdown, +34 damage, critical hit.

I only used Wild Blow at the end, when the Master's Health was low, to try and get a quicker death with the critical.

I only used Frenzy when I remembered it ran out.

I got around 14 seconds to death, usually down to 12, once was 11 when I got a real lucky wild blow.

---

I made a Warrior with Conjure Flame at 8 Fire Magic, 15 Swordsmanship, and 12 Strength. Over the course of 60 seconds, under Frenzy, I did forty-seven DPS. Death after thirteen seconds. Just plain attacking.

---

I took a Ranger, gave him Conjure Flame and Glass Arrows, no other skills no IAS, and did around almost forty DPS with shortbow.

Added Sundering and Penetrating Shots (shot, shot, normal attack, repeat), did forty-three DPS over the course of 34 seconds (till my Energy ran out).

---

A bar dedicated to 1k Health and forty-two DPS with Weakness isn't good. I'm sorry. Two skills on a Sword Warrior can get forty-seven DPS, and that still has six slots open for other skills.

I am sticking to my argument. Having more life isn't better. Not dieing isn't the same as winning.

Scion

-EDIT-

Guildmaster, if I had a nickle for every time someone told me tough titties, I'd be wearing nickle plated diapers. =)
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Ternnel Stronghold on Wed 17 Sep - 22:40

Scion i clearly can't change your mind by posting(and you may be right my build may not be as good). So let us do a few things in the game -

-a duel your hammer warrior build Vs. Mine

-We can group and go to master of damage for 1 min each we can attack the master of damage and compare data

-we can also group and do an AB and you can see how i play my build

after that maybe i will have a better idea of what you are saying and you may get what i am saying. Smile
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Pampered One on Wed 17 Sep - 23:29

That seems like a reasonable challenge.

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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Danny on Thu 18 Sep - 12:03

mmmmmm At the risk of showing how truely ignorant I am..... what is the Master of Damage?

I am asking from work and my Internet access is limited.
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Aeternalia on Thu 18 Sep - 12:15

DI, The Isle of the Nameless (Adjacent to the great temple of balthazaar) has some NPC's on it that are designed to help you improve your fighting. It has a few targets that are of the different Armor Classes, a setup that allows you to visually see the different ranges.. adjacent, in the area, within shout, etc.. There is also an NPC that will take damage for a minute on a timer, then after the minute is over.. it divides the damage by 60 for you and displays the damage per second you were able to inflict. It's useful in determining the damage of your skillbar to an extent..

the values can be misleading if using area effect skills, as the NPC will not run out of the damage as the AI will...

James
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Scion on Thu 18 Sep - 12:42

If you go to the PvP Isles there is a main landing area, the Temple of Balthazar (I think). From there, if looking at the main set of stairs, you hang a left and go over the bridge to the Isle of the Nameless. This is sort of the PvP 'pre'.

There are a couple Masters there, some heal themselves, some hex you, some summon Spirits, so you can check your build to see how well it works against a certain type of foe.

One of the Masters is the http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Master_of_damage, and you can wail on him for three minutes straight. He tells you how much damage you do, your average damage per second, and how long it took him to die. It is great for testing buids and such, just to gauge your own damage output.

Once you get onto the Isle of the Nameless, hang a hard right. Go outside the arena looking thing, and follow the outside wall around to the left. If the entrance to the arena thing is six o clock, he is outside at two.

-EDIT- Yeah, what James said. =)
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Danny on Thu 18 Sep - 15:11

Thanks guys, I have been at this since March and still learn something new almost daily. Of course I am the type of gamer that ignores the manual and jumps into the thick of it. Thanks for the info and all of yall's patience.
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Danny on Thu 18 Sep - 15:13

The next question.....I am learning not to be shy about asking, is how do I post my build the way youse guys are doing?

Thanks again.
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Scion on Thu 18 Sep - 16:41

If you type brackets around the name of a skill, it pops up as an icon: [Flare]

If you type two brackets first, it'll make it a link [[Flare]

If you bracket around the whole thing with [build][skills][/build] you can make it a nice string.

Or do [build=TemplateCodeFromGW]

The thing is, our damned forums are broke and none of it works right.

For some reason I need to make the build in GWTeamBuilder, then import the text string into my post before it works. Then, for some reason, all the code works for that post. It makes very little sense.

I'm going to post this, then repost again with a skillbar, maybe it'll work....
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Aeternalia on Thu 18 Sep - 16:44

Di,

The skill icons are very easy to use.. you simply put the name of the skill .. for instance
Crushing Blow
inside [ ] open bracket and close bracket.

Code:
 [Crushing Blow]

The result is that our forums changes it into the symbolic form of that skill



if you want to get more advanced with it.. you can actually list the entire bar by doing this..


Code:
[build prof=Warrior/Ranger][Devastating Hammer][Crushing Blow][Heavy Blow][Mokele Smash][Lion's Comfort][Flail][Enraging Charge][Antidote Signet][/build]


gives you this:

{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}

I hope that helps with the syntax.. and gets you posting skill icons with the best of them..

James

EDIT:: What Scion Said.. Smile
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Scion on Thu 18 Sep - 16:53

Bah, I can't get it to work right.

The link is here: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10277633

James, can you just post one icon without posting an entire bar? Cuz that doesn't work for me. I need that copy/pasted [build prof... line before anything works.

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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Aeternalia on Thu 18 Sep - 16:55

While you were doing that.. I tested it myself.. and you are correct.. the skills are only recognized it seems if there is a complete skillbar in the post.. otherwise they just look like this..

[flare]

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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Scion on Thu 18 Sep - 16:58

We need to make a call to heavenforum and give them five across the eyes, then offer five more if they don't fix it.
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Aeternalia on Thu 18 Sep - 17:00

{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}

this seems to work..


Code:
 [build prof = ][flare][/build]

as long as that is somewhere in the code then the rest of them should work too..


unfortunately some of the other functionality does not work.. setting attribute values for instance.. works on GW Guru.. but not here.. not shure why.. perhaps what we installed on the server to support GW BB Code is out of date for these newer tags?

(still shows the stats as ranges instead of specific values)

Code:
 [crushing blow@16]

{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
Code:
[build prof=W/E air=8][Shock][Frenzy][Eviscerate][/build]

James


Last edited by Aeternalia on Thu 18 Sep - 17:18; edited 1 time in total
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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Scion on Thu 18 Sep - 17:15

Eureka! Got to have one tagged as [ build prof = ][/build ] in order to activate the bbCode.

Strong work, James. That's been driving me crazy.

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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Pampered One on Thu 18 Sep - 18:06

Di, do not feel bad. I only found out about the MoD around April or May of this year. sad Witchy stumbled across it and only after I bought the Guild Bank account and it made me run through that area 'cause the first toon I made was PvP toon for storage. Decided to go back and explore more thoroughly with Witchy and VIOLA. Coolio. Coolio indeed.

Ternnel. I forgot to try my hammer vs your last night. Got nothing I want to prove. Just want to try it out. I did find one failing with it and that was NEVER go all Adrenal Attacks on a 4 attack build. It just takes too dang long to build up through it. Lesson I learned long ago and for some reason I just brainfarted on it. 3 Adrenals and one energy attack works better. I noticed my energy NEVER went below 15 the whole time we were testing so I obviously can spare it for one attack.

Words of Wisdom for Warriors: The smart Warrior knows when to beat ASS and when to beat feet.



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default Re: The build and it's story.

Post by Ahou Anansi on Thu 18 Sep - 18:24

Actually ... after poking the BB code, if you put
{template_download}{prof_imgs}{skills}
{build_name}
Code:
[build prof=][/build]

Somewhere in the top of your post (it won't show). Or, alternatively have a full or partial real, visibile build above the text where you bracket a single skill, then you can use:

Code:
[flare]


and you'll see

I now hereby accuse this whole thread of the horrible build faux pas of Flare spamming!! Take that. ... well ... ok, mainly just me.
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